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Chris -- 2011-03-08

#1 2011-06-24 22:44:21

Dixon Wragg
Eggcornista
From: Santa Rosa, California
Registered: 2008-07-04
Posts: 637

"djinn up" for "gin up"

This one’s already in the Eggcorn Database ( http://eggcorns.lascribe.net/english/469/djinn/ ), but I’d never encountered it until today when I saw this in a chat-room post, so I thought I’d share it for the amusement of others who may not have seen it before:

“And as everybody knows, I’ve called you on it when you’ve started to djinn up a posse.”

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#2 2011-06-25 00:48:09

David Bird
Eggcornista
From: Montréal, QC
Registered: 2009-07-28
Posts: 1189

Re: "djinn up" for "gin up"

Classic. “Gin up” was equally new to me. Is this eggcornology?

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#3 2011-06-25 06:27:04

Dixon Wragg
Eggcornista
From: Santa Rosa, California
Registered: 2008-07-04
Posts: 637

Re: "djinn up" for "gin up"

David Bird wrote:

“Gin up” was equally new to me.

I think “gin up” has been popularized by Obama lately, as I’ve seen him use the term more than once. But I also have a vague memory of having heard it in the past. I thought it might be a term from gin rummy, but after reading up on it a bit, I now doubt that. A summary of meanings and derivations for “gin up” is at: http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/ginned-up.html
The most interesting derivation story I’ve seen thus far is that it’s from “ginger up”, as in: ”...to put ginger up a horse’s fundament, and formerly, as it is said, a live eel, to make him lively and carry his tail well.”

Is this eggcornology?

Any time I want to discuss an eggcorn that’s already listed in the database, I do it under “Eggcornology”, which seems like clearly the most appropriate category. Or do you have a different idea about that?

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#4 2011-06-25 07:07:32

patschwieterman
Administrator
From: California
Registered: 2005-10-25
Posts: 1665

Re: "djinn up" for "gin up"

Any time I want to discuss an eggcorn that’s already listed in the database, I do it under “Eggcornology”, which seems like clearly the most appropriate category. Or do you have a different idea about that?

Oh, okay. I noticed Dixon’s pattern of posting in Eggcornology a couple of years back, and I was puzzled by it, but decided it didn’t matter much. And, frankly, I still don’t think it matters very much. And, heck, the “Eggcornology” page is fairly rarely visited, so maybe it’s just nice that somebody is keeping the chair warm over there. That said, Dixon, I don’t see why you shouldn’t post these sorts of comments on Contribute—you always make it clear that you know the eggcorn is already in the Database, so no one can get confused. And they fit a little better in Contribute than they do in “Eggcornology,” where I personally expect a more abstract, “theoretical” discussion that’s widely applicable to a range of reshapings. But ultimately it’s up to you as far as I’m concerned. (If anyone ever wants a thread they started moved to a different page, I can do that, by the way. Occasionally I’ve noticed months/years afterwards that I didn’t act on someone’s request for a move, but that’s due to cluelessness rather than an unwillingness to do so. It only takes a few seconds.)

If Chris ever has a chance to change the layout of the whole site, one of the things I’d like to see is a page on which we could discuss the Database and its existing entries—that would give your posts a more natural home, and it would also allow us a space in which to nuance/challenge/add to the extant Database write-ups. Of course, allowing comments on the Database again would achieve the same thing, but Chris has said that that brings with it a host of other problems.

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#5 2011-06-25 07:28:49

Dixon Wragg
Eggcornista
From: Santa Rosa, California
Registered: 2008-07-04
Posts: 637

Re: "djinn up" for "gin up"

patschwieterman wrote:

Dixon, I don’t see why you shouldn’t post these sorts of comments on Contribute—you always make it clear that you know the eggcorn is already in the Database, so no one can get confused. And they fit a little better in Contribute than they do in “Eggcornology,” where I personally expect a more abstract, “theoretical” discussion that’s widely applicable to a range of reshapings.

Oh, okay, “Contribute” it is then, even for eggcorns that are already in the database. I’m sure you can see that it’s not obvious from the heading “Contribute” that that’s where such posts should go, but I’ll happily put them anywhere you like. If I’m the only one who’s putting posts about already-listed eggcorns in the “Eggcornology” section instead of the “Contribute” section, that surprises me. Perhaps others aren’t checking to see if an eggcorn is already in the database before posting about it?

For clarity’s sake, someone may want to reword the descriptions under “Contribute” (“Submissions to the Eggcorn Database”) and “Eggcornology” (“Eggcorn questions & answers, and everything in-between”) on the Forum index page to better reflect the intended uses of these sections as you’ve just explained them to me, because as they’re currently worded, they’d impel people to post as I’ve been doing. Then again, maybe it’s not that important.

FWIW, you can feel free to move any of my posts, past, present or future, into any section you deem appropriate.

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#6 2011-06-25 12:02:35

burred
Eggcornista
From: Montreal
Registered: 2008-03-17
Posts: 948

Re: "djinn up" for "gin up"

Thanks for that great link, Dixon, I had no idea. Among the other interesting possible origins identified in there, I liked the expressions for ‘drunk’ from 1881. I was gingered up by “he fills up with bug juice and gets fuller’n a goose”. Would that be the same bug as in jitterbug? Why would they associate drink with bugs in the first place? Something to do with ants and aphids? That aside, how interesting was the link to ‘begin’.

Diverse as the connections are in the Phrases piece, there are yet other suggestions about, especially the idea that “gin up” comes from engine up, by way of “ingenious”.

‘Gin up’ and ‘djinn up’ will be handy.

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#7 2011-06-25 17:31:20

Dixon Wragg
Eggcornista
From: Santa Rosa, California
Registered: 2008-07-04
Posts: 637

Re: "djinn up" for "gin up"

burred wrote:

...I liked the expressions for ‘drunk’ from 1881. I was gingered up by “he fills up with bug juice and gets fuller’n a goose”. Would that be the same bug as in jitterbug? Why would they associate drink with bugs in the first place? Something to do with ants and aphids?

I imagine it comes from the terms “buggy” and “bugs” (as in Bugs Bunny), both of which mean crazy. Or, possibly, moonshine from a still out in the woods might have had bugs floating around in it? Here’s a link for several definitions of bug juice I’d never heard of:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p … ug%20juice

That aside, how interesting was the link to ‘begin’.

In that connection, I’m thinking that the “g” in one or two of those “gin” definitions, such as “to give”, might be pronounced hard, like the “g” in “begin”.

Diverse as the connections are in the Phrases piece, there are yet other suggestions about, especially the idea that “gin up” comes from “engine up”...

Yeah, I’d heard that the “gin” in “cotton gin” was short for “engine”.

...by way of “ingenious”.

And of course, “ingenious”, rooted in “genie”, takes us back full circle to “djinn”.

‘Gin up’ and ‘djinn up’ will be handy.

They make make you seem ingenious. Just try not to let the horse kick you.

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#8 2011-06-25 17:39:15

patschwieterman
Administrator
From: California
Registered: 2005-10-25
Posts: 1665

Re: "djinn up" for "gin up"

Before I continue to jack this thread, I’ll try to be relevant for a paragraph.

Burred wrote:

Would that be the same bug as in jitterbug? Why would they associate drink with bugs in the first place? Something to do with ants and aphids?

Interesting—I’d never really thought about why an alcoholic was a jitterBUG. The jitters makes obvious sense as a reference to the DTs. But the bug part is less clear. Maybe this use of bug is related to “bug” as a suffix for someone interested in a particular thing. Since Maeve Maddox over at Daily Writing Tips has drawn attention to eggcorns, let’s send some traffic her way:

Bug as a Suffix
The suffix -bug added to a word can create a noun meaning “a person obsessed with…” Firebug, “a fire-setter” dates from 1841. Shutterbug, “picture-taking enthusiast,” 1940.
litterbug – “irresponsible person who drops trash anywhere” – first recorded 1947, but the verb littering came later, in 1960.
http://www.dailywritingtips.com/hurrah- … lowly-bug/

Of course, “jitterbug” may not work perfectly here given Maddox’s definition since alcoholics aren’t particularly “obsessed with” the jitters per se—but I don’t think that rules out the possibility of a connection. And if litterbugs go around littering, serious alcoholics go around jittering.

“Bug juices” could mean both alcohol and insect honey dew in the 19th century, and contemporary references to “bug juice” on books.google.com certainly link the two with some frequency, but in a very quick search I didn’t find anyone saying explicitly that the slang term for alcohol came from the slang term for honey dew.

The link for “ginned up” at phrases.org was interesting, but I think some of the possibilities there can be ruled out pretty quickly. The “gin” as in “given” seems to me not to work for the simple fact that you’ve got a hard g rather than a soft one (and I see no semantic connection at all). Middle English “gin” for “begin” has a good semantic link, and it’s at least possible a palatalized (i.e., soft) g has survived in some southern dialects of British English—that could probably be checked—but I’d need some evidence the Middle English form has/had dialectal descendants in Modern English.

Okay, back to jacking the thread. Dixon wrote:

For clarity’s sake, someone may want to reword the descriptions under “Contribute” (“Submissions to the Eggcorn Database”) and “Eggcornology” (“Eggcorn questions & answers, and everything in-between”) on the Forum index page to better reflect the intended uses of these sections as you’ve just explained them to me, because as they’re currently worded, they’d impel people to post as I’ve been doing.

Dixon, you may well be right that your approach makes more sense given those headings. I think they DO reflect “intended uses” in that they reflect what Chris intended when she set up this version of the forum in late 2005. But practice seems to have diverged from that original theory; in particular, since contributions almost never make it into the Database anymore, the “Contribute” label just seems like an artifact now, rather than a normative label. For me, it’s just the name of the page on which we talk about specific things we think are eggcorns. But your interpretation is certainly defensible, and as I said before, I consider the choice of pages up to you. The fact that all active threads are visible on the main Forum homepage means that these distinctions don’t matter all that much.

As far as I can tell, I don’t have the power to change the headings for the pages. I can apparently wipe out whole sections of the Forum if I choose to, but I don’t seem to be able to do lots of practical little things like that. And I imagine that’s probably best from Chris’s viewpoint.

On a few very rare occasions, I’ve moved newbies’ pages. But I would never move a regular’s post to another page without a request because that could imply an interpretive decision on my part (“what you’re calling an eggcorn is just a slip”) that I shouldn’t have the right to impose on other regulars.

Edit: Dixon and I were working on long posts at the same time, so I hadn’t seen his last post (or the partial overlap with mine) when I posted.

Last edited by patschwieterman (2011-06-25 19:25:58)

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#9 2011-06-25 18:09:21

Dixon Wragg
Eggcornista
From: Santa Rosa, California
Registered: 2008-07-04
Posts: 637

Re: "djinn up" for "gin up"

Thanks for the clarification.

patschwieterman wrote:

...since contributions almost never make it into the Database anymore, the “Contribute” label just seems like an artifact now, rather than a normative label.

So then apparently, the Eggcorn Database is, with rare exceptions, a sort of petrified archive rather than an ongoing concern? And I suppose there is no other comprehensive eggcorn list on the ‘Net to which one could add eggcorns. Oh well—good thing it’s not important.

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#10 2011-06-25 19:19:20

patschwieterman
Administrator
From: California
Registered: 2005-10-25
Posts: 1665

Re: "djinn up" for "gin up"

So then apparently, the Eggcorn Database is, with rare exceptions, a sort of petrified archive rather than an ongoing concern?

I’m a bit uncomfortable admitting it so bluntly, but yeah, that seems to be the situation. If you look at the dates on the most recent Database entries, one or two new ones are still sneaking in every year, but even then they tend not to be drawn from the Contribute list here on the forum. I’m not happy about this, but I don’t think it’s going to change in the near future. On the other hand, the Eggcorn Forum has a pretty high Web profile, and it’s not like contributions to it are lost from sight. And if regular movement from Contribute into the Database ever starts up again, then at least we’ve got everything preserved in one easily accessed place.

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#11 2011-06-25 19:48:06

Dixon Wragg
Eggcornista
From: Santa Rosa, California
Registered: 2008-07-04
Posts: 637

Re: "djinn up" for "gin up"

Again, Pat, thanks for the clarification.

So, what’s the bottleneck? The Powers That Be have decided that only a couple of people are qualified to distinguish eggcorns from other critters, and they don’t have time to do it?

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#12 2011-06-25 21:11:12

patschwieterman
Administrator
From: California
Registered: 2005-10-25
Posts: 1665

Re: "djinn up" for "gin up"

So, what’s the bottleneck? The Powers That Be have decided that only a couple of people are qualified to distinguish eggcorns from other critters, and they don’t have time to do it?

Well, I can’t speak for TPTB. But that’s pretty close to my own reading of the situation. I’ve actually tried volunteering to “Database” contributions—and I’ve said I’d be happy to work from a list approved by Chris or someone else, so that it’s not just my own choices getting in—but I haven’t been taken up on that. So for the time being the Database is fairly moribund.

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#13 2011-06-25 21:15:33

patschwieterman
Administrator
From: California
Registered: 2005-10-25
Posts: 1665

Re: "djinn up" for "gin up"

Getting back to “jitterbug,” Dixon suggested “buggy” as in crazy, while I suggested the suffix “bug,” as in firebug. I’d never thought of it before, but “buggy” and the “bug” suffix are probably related; a “firebug” is probably someone who is “buggy” about fires. I’ll need to see if the OED dates for all this work—or perhaps they say it outright.

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#14 2011-06-25 22:10:47

Dixon Wragg
Eggcornista
From: Santa Rosa, California
Registered: 2008-07-04
Posts: 637

Re: "djinn up" for "gin up"

“Bug” as in “jitterbug”, “litterbug”, “shutterbug” may result from the same kind of mental/etymological process as “freak” as in “speed freak”, “Jesus freak”, etc. (someone who is extremely interested in a particular subject or activity), although that use of “bug” almost certainly predates “freak”. Interesting to note that, in the examples I can think of, ”-bug” always follows a word ending in ”-tter”.

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#15 2011-06-26 13:03:20

DavidTuggy
Eggcornista
From: Mexico
Registered: 2007-10-12
Posts: 1777
Website

Re: "djinn up" for "gin up"

Except (at least) firebug ‘arsonist’, which Pat mentioned (ends in r in any case)

Last edited by DavidTuggy (2011-06-26 13:04:58)


*If the human mind were simple enough for us to understand,
we would be too simple-minded to understand it* .

(Possible Corollary: it is, and we are .)

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#16 2011-06-26 13:55:01

DavidTuggy
Eggcornista
From: Mexico
Registered: 2007-10-12
Posts: 1777
Website

Re: "djinn up" for "gin up"

Pat wrote:

Interesting—I’d never really thought about why an alcoholic was a jitterBUG. The jitters makes obvious sense as a reference to the DTs.

Should I be offended?

Any of you remember the Far Side cartoon with the shady (=“sketchy”)-looking vendor huddled over a collection of bottles labled The Creeps, The Willies, The Jitters, The Fantods, The Heebie-Jeebies etc. ? It’s an interesting little construction; doubtless related to The Measles, The Mumps, The Pocks/Pox, The DTs and etc. and soon and soforth. It’s typically embedded in “It gives me the _s” or (for both sets) “I got the _”, where as the second set (but not the first) occurs in phrases like “come down with the _s” or “she’s suffering from the _s”.

Last edited by DavidTuggy (2011-06-26 13:55:40)


*If the human mind were simple enough for us to understand,
we would be too simple-minded to understand it* .

(Possible Corollary: it is, and we are .)

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#17 2011-06-29 15:12:21

David Bird
Eggcornista
From: Montréal, QC
Registered: 2009-07-28
Posts: 1189

Re: "djinn up" for "gin up"

The DTs, in particular, is interesting. But I don’t have full-blown delirium tremens yet, I just have the occasional tremen.

The fantods, eh? I’ll have to look that one up. And soon and soforth, forsooth.

Here are some rarer simblings, nowhere as good as djinn up, but out there just the same. The first up, gene up, is sourceable to one highly active commentator in Africa. The second, chin up, would be like make stronger? Improve the outlook of? It too is a nonce, save the two transcript silicisms.

Further, this Rihanna miscalculation is a big stigma which CB can never shake off, try as he may, all remorse on mother earth considered, as long as the likes of Oprah Winfrey and Tyra Banks are around to gene up feminism and reharsh how pathetic men are, and how once an abuser always remains an abuser?
http://meniru.blogspot.com/2009_08_01_archive.html

The interference by President Zuma in the Scorpion’s Elite Unit anti-corruption work in South Africa by disbanding them alongside the then Nigeria’s EFCC chairman’s experience show that the men of power of Africa are the real reason why corruption thrives in the continent. They corrupt the society to gene up their support base and amass enormous money
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NIgerianW … sage/53112

People approach sabbaticals in different ways. Some want to chin up a glimmer of an idea they have
http://explore.georgetown.edu/news/?ID=42125

“It’s going to be a fun time,” Betras said. “It’s a rally and we’re going to chin up the base and tell people get out and vote.
Ohio Valley Tribune

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, well, I don’t want to chin up the fear or alarm because a lot of people are already alarmed in this country, but in the event that someone wanted to do something, take a crop duster plane, for instance
cnn transcript:http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0110/09/tpt.00.html

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#18 2011-06-29 20:58:02

DavidTuggy
Eggcornista
From: Mexico
Registered: 2007-10-12
Posts: 1777
Website

Re: "djinn up" for "gin up"

David B wrote:

The DTs, in particular, is interesting. But I don’t have full-blown delirium tremens yet, just the occasional tremen.

Yes, as DB was implying, there’s an eggcornical restructuring of sorts going one where the final _-s_ of tremens (a participial singular ending, if I remember my little Latin) is reanalyzed into a quasi-plural like that of mumps, measles , etc. Plenty of evidence that they are plural, at least for some, e.g. the “they/them” and the number of the verb in

The DTs: What They Are and How to Fight Them […] If caught early enough, the DTs are extremely treatable

and many similar cites. If it’s a plural, then tremen must be the noun stem that gets pluralized, and no doubt it means something like “tremor, trembling”. So the one restructuring prompts another. Not tremendous, but cute at least.

Last edited by DavidTuggy (2011-06-29 21:55:53)


*If the human mind were simple enough for us to understand,
we would be too simple-minded to understand it* .

(Possible Corollary: it is, and we are .)

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#19 2011-06-30 00:29:13

burred
Eggcornista
From: Montreal
Registered: 2008-03-17
Posts: 948

Re: "djinn up" for "gin up"

Oh, by the way, my family came to my city (which is about 3000 kms away) for my birthday. Not pleasant when you shout to your mum because you are hearing voices and need to chill the fuck out as you are slipping into delirium tremends.
Weightlifter addicted to gamma-Butyrolactone

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