Discussions about eggcorns and related topics
You are not logged in.
Registrations are currently closed because of a technical problem. Please send email to
The forum administrator reserves the right to request users to plausibly demonstrate that they are real people with an interest in the topic of eggcorns. Otherwise they may be removed with no further justification. Likewise, accounts that have not been used for posting may be removed.
Thanks for your understanding.
Chris -- 2018-04-11
I heard this this morning, in connection with the ghastly events in Nice. The phrase was something like “out of the sudden people started running …” All I could find in the eggcorn database was discussion of “all of the sudden.” My initial thought is to take the phrase “out of the sudden” as a portmanteau of “out of the (blue)” and ”(all of a) sudden.”
A google for “out of the sudden” throws up 169,000 – of course, not all will be of the phrase, as it could be e.g. “out of the sudden + (ADJ) N.” That compares to over 64 million for “all of a sudden.” For “out of the blue”, Google is no use, because of its use as a name.
I looked in the Corpus of Contemporary American, which gives these figures:
out of the sudden 0 – (there was one “out of the sudden + N”)
all of a sudden – 6836
all of the sudden – 294 (a scan of the first few shows majority are the set phrase; mostly from spoken data, only 1 from academic)
out of the blue – 1045
The Corpus of Historical American gives 0 instances.
GloWbE gives:
out of the sudden – 20, of which 13 were the set phrase.
all of a sudden – 11,608
all of the sudden – 644
out of the blue – 3922
For what it’s worth, this suggests that “out of the sudden” is not common in writing.
As a percentage of combined occurrences of “of a:the sudden”, COCA and GloWbe show not dissimilar figures for “all of the sudden”: 4.1% and 5.3%.
Offline
Nice little blend (portmanteau is a respectable name for it, but usually portmanteaux combine structures with more unlike meanings than these, e.g. Lewis Carroll’s lithe + slimy > slithy.) Excellent documentation of usage rates.
But as to eggcorn status, I’m less than clear about the meaning reanalysis that you may see going on. How does “out of the sudden†yield the appropriate meaning for you, in a different way from “all of a sudden�
Last edited by DavidTuggy (2016-07-16 20:07:04)
*If the human mind were simple enough for us to understand,
we would be too simple-minded to understand it* .
Offline
I know fine that a portmanteau is usually a combination of single words: I stretched the meaning a little. The OED definition of eggcorn is this: “An alteration of a word or phrase through the mishearing or reinterpretation of one or more of its elements as a similar-sounding word.” In the case of “out of the sudden”, “out of the” replaces “all of a…”. Short of asking the people who use it what the reinterpretation is, I can’t tell you. However, “the sudden” suggests to me something defined, unlike “of a sudden.” As a nominalization of an adjective, it also strikes me as parallel with “out of the blue”, as I said earlier.
Offline
I am fine with (in fact very much in favor of) your including mixed phrases along with mixed words in the category of portmanteaux. And I’m by no means saying that this isn’t an eggcorn. (I want to say that it is.) It is just that in the prototypical eggcorns there is a clear imagery or meaning contrast with the “acornâ€, and the eggcornical analysis makes as much or more sense as/than the original one did. This kind is difficult for me to verbalize what the meaning difference is, and how the new analysis works.
*If the human mind were simple enough for us to understand,
we would be too simple-minded to understand it* .
Offline
Yes, David, to my mind also mixed phrases can be eggcorns (otherwise they might be merely malapropisms, going by the original 2003 discussion of the term) and there are plenty of phrasal eggcorns in the existing list, e.g. baited breath, go at it hammer and thongs, etc. The problem with this one is that it’s impossible to see how it can be a homophone. Neither, like you, can I put my finger on the meaning re-analysis, but I just have a gut feeling, if you like, that there is one going on. Actually, I posted also to find out if others had come across “out of the sudden”, since it seems to be primarily oral. Because I write usage guides, I’m keen to find out how widespread a form like this is, and there4 if it’s worth including. :-). Perhaps in the end it fails eggcornization criteria – :-( – but it’s an interesting case in itself.
Offline
Seems to me that “out of the sudden” is more like what we have been calling an idiom blend (blidiom) than a portmanteau. It’s hard to imagine the rationale for the phrase if it isn’t catalyzed by “out of the blue.”
Hatching new language, one eggcorn at a time.
Offline
I wasn’t aware there was a term “blidiom”, so thanks for that. Like you, Kem, I think it has to be a blidiom derived from “out of the (blue) + (all of a) sudden.”
Offline
The Merriam-Webster site, which has been flagging eggcorns recently, has another permutation: “all over sudden” Not bad.
Hatching new language, one eggcorn at a time.
Offline
All over sudden is nice. Blending with “(suddenly) (it’s) all over (with)†seems likely, which of course says nothing about eggcornhood or not.
.
There are sure to be other over < of a examples out there. I looked a while for “over morning†or “over Monday†but I drew a blank: the “of a†versions of those phrases are rare anymore, and there are too many contexts where the “over†versions are what was intended (e.g. getting “over morning†sickness, taking “over morning news†from somebody else, etc.) “[Number] over kind†showed up, but doesn’t strike me as eggcornish.
IndiegamesI try to create one over kind independent games, exploring and experimenting with new game mechanics.
One over kind hand forged hanger for coats, towels or kitchen items. Perfect and practical decoration for your living space
You are the one you reading my mind. Only because we’re two over kind.
Right now I bet you’re drawin’ to a streight three over kind two paris then one pat. But if it’s a full house that’s you’re looking for.
Last edited by DavidTuggy (2020-08-24 16:53:10)
*If the human mind were simple enough for us to understand,
we would be too simple-minded to understand it* .
Offline