Discussions about eggcorns and related topics
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Thanks for your understanding.
Chris -- 2018-04-11
Google hits (Jan 29, 2009):
108,000,000 “Economy went South”
13,500,000 “Economy went sour”
8 “Economy went stale” —reference point
Analysis by Joe Krozel
There’s an informal idiomatic usage “go South” which means “lose value or quality.” The image I associate with this is the downward trend on a chart …heading in the Southward direction.
“Gone sour” is legitimate usage in its own right since it conveys the same sense of diminished value/quality. It also happens to convey an image more readily than “gone South.” MH Dictionary of American Idioms and Phrasal Verbs identifies widespread usage of both “go sour” and “go South.” The latter is listed as slang usage, while the former is simply described as figurative. (It is unclear whether this indicates that the latter is considered more idiomatic).
Given this situation, one has to wonder whether one of these expressions originated as an eggcorn of the other. Conventional wisdom would say that the slang usage is the offshoot of the “figurative” one. However this situation appears backwards because the alleged offshoot “gone South” is used in greater numbers, and it’s imagery is less apparent than the alleged original “gone sour.” So, I will proceed to consider “gone sour” as an eggcorn of “gone South” and welcome opposing viewpoints. (Perhaps someone with access to OED can lend a hand with the historical perspective).
Stating things explicitly, I would allege that “gone sour” is often an eggcorn of “gone South” because of the very similar sound of the words; That is, “South” may suggest “sour” on a subliminal level. I suspect if one were to recite a paragraph (to someone) containing the words “went South” buried within, one is liable to hear the words “went sour” in at least a few paraphrasing responses. I also suspect it is less likely to happen the other way around, but I certainly haven’t put this to the test.
Again, I welcome opposing viewpoints.
Examples:
Officials say Retirement System still working
... the economic downturn.<br> But officials say the South Dakota Retirement System can weather some difficult times because it was in good financial shape before the economy went sour ...
www.mitchellrepublic.com/articles/index.cfm?id=30668 · Cached page
BBC NEWS | Business | Troubled hedge fund sells assets
In 1998, US hedge fund Long-term Capital Management folded with losses of almost $5bn after its strategy of gambling on government bond prices went sour.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5398376.stm · Cached page
INFO MEDIA LINKS
... Sometimes these were volatile enough to put the whole economy into a succession of recessions and recoveries. The mechanism was simple. When housing prices went sour, families became …
www.californiacontractor.us/0508_FULL_EDITION.pdf · Cached page· PDF file
Ford quarterly earnings expected to dip on slipping SUV sales, high …
... good truck, but Ford was losing $300 per truck it built there compared to other Truck plants without hope of ever building another vehicle along side it if gas prices went sour.
www.autoblog.com/2006/04/20/ford-quarte … sales... · Cached page
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(1) I think you are with me, Joe, in saying that this is more a speculation about how one or the other of these two may have come into being than it is an affirmation about their status today. Very many people (I among them) use both expressions and consider them both legitimate, related by synonymy but not derived one from the other, much less mistaken one for the other.
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(2) To me there is a definite and important difference in meaning between the two. Going south is more closely synonymous with going or heading down; going sour is more closely synonymous with going bad.
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(3) Bolstering the notion that “gone south†came into being relatively independent of “gone sour†is the existence of “southpaw†and some other quasi-jocular, slangish usages in which “south†to mean something negative or non-normal. Bolstering the notion that “gone sour†is independent of “gone south†is its common use to describe the curdling of milk or the passing of their prime by certain fruits.
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(4) The economy, and perhaps prices, can go either south or sour, but the two expressions don’t co-collocate as easily in other contexts. Relationships tend to go sour, but less often to go south, I think. Milk does not go south. The lines on a graph, or the attendance figures at a long-running event, can head south but not go sour.
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Both expressions denote change towards a negative state, but there are plenty of other expressions that share that much meaning. Absent pretty direct evidence that someone once said “going sour†thinking that was what others meant when they said “going South†(or vice versa), I would not list this as an eggcorn, but rather as a pair of similar expressions. In other words, I am agreeing with the MH Dictionary of American Idioms and Phrasal Verbs on this one.
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Btw, I would not say that “going South†has less apparent imagery than “going sour†does. The imagery for both is quite sharp and clear for me.
*If the human mind were simple enough for us to understand,
we would be too simple-minded to understand it* .
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Per Joe’s suggestion:
The Oxford English Dictionary has citations for to go (or turn) sour beginning in 1340 and continuing through 1981. The earliest actually has “wax sour” rather than “go sour.”
a1340 HAMPOLE Psalter Prol., O wondirful suetnes, the whilk waxis noght soure thurgh the corupciouns of this warld. 1611 BIBLE Hosea iv. 18 Ephraim is ioyned to idoles:..Their drinke is sowre.
1957 A. MACNAB Bulls of Iberia xv. 214 He cannot afford to ease up in one or two bulls, or the whole afternoon may go sour on him.
1981 P. NIESEWAND Word of Gentleman i. 14 Moorhouse and his party had wiped the floor with the opposition… Then suddenly everything went sour.
OED has to head (also go) south. as a draft addition. It is cited only from 1975, but such recent additions can often be ante-dated.
1975 Business Week 14 Apr. 63/2 If the market is headed South..there is a point beyond which information and growth prospects are meaningless. 1986 Financial Times (Nexis) 5 July I6 With oil heading south of $10..the London stock market today stands less than 4 per cent below its highest ever level.
And indeed, a quick look at Google books finds this from 1966, which may or may not be “go south” in the relevant sense – the author mentions New England, so “south” may be literal.
I’ve been in New England now for 45 years and throughout this period observed the textile industry go south and the shoe industry disappear.
(The Collected Scientific Papers of Paul A Samuelson, 1966)
http://books.google.com/books?id=UKeJEc46R9AC
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I concur with the responses, but I’d still like to elaborate on this one point…
Consider a person who is first learning English …either as a first or a second language. A certain period will elapse before he recognizes “went sour” as being somewhat idiomatic, and usually a longer period will elapse before he recognizes “went South” as such. Now, if you were to use the expression “went South” prior to his knowledge of either idiom, then he just might think you said “went sour” because the imagery is so much more accessible—and I would consider this to be an eggcorn. However, if he is aware of the “went sour” idiom, he just might be attempting to correct your use of “went South” because it was unfamiliar to him—and perhaps that situation would not be an eggcorn.
Now having said that, we don’t often get the chance to climb into the head of other speakers, so at best we can speak from personal experience. I just wish I could recall my own experience with this matter a bit better.
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